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. According to my source your Model 12 Winchester was made in 1924, so it is 89 years old. Included with the gun is its orig, Winchester Model 12, 28 Gauge in very good to near fine original condition. M, ventilated rib, mid 1950's manufacture, completely original, only one ever produced by Winchester, ultimate rarity for the Model 12 co, 12ga, #1737096, standard gun that has been restocked and has a Simmons ventilated rib added, 12ga, 30 inch barrel, full choke, 2 3/4 inch chamber, 14 3/4 inch LOP with "Decelerator" pad, blu, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood, Winchester Model 12 28 gauge Skeet solid rib. Consider the possibility of a hang-fire, an occasional event in 1912, in a gun without the slide lock feature. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others . Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. Length of pull was reduced in January 1936 to reflect the extra clothing worn by duck hunters. Winchester proof steel replaced nickel steel in the manufacture of all Winchester firearms in the early 1930s. Charles Askins confirmed the tighter patterns and greater effective range in the field. I am still going with "Winchester sent Model 12s to Simmons for ribs, but Simmons sold them." It is possible for the slide lock to fail to unlock the action during recoil. Askins rule of thumb of 70 years ago still pertains with modern lead-shot ammunition. Length of pull is 14". Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked modified, and 14" LOP. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. THE SHOTGUN HAS A 30' PLAIN BARREL AND IS FULL CHOKE. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. Exc Orig Condition, Winchester Model 12 28-gauge, factory original, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 LIMITED EDITION 20GA. bolt act. This is a shotgun I should never have sold. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. THE SHOT GUN IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION , WITH A 28 IN VENTILATED RIB BARREL WITH FULL CHOKE. The Model 12 duck gun came to market at the all-time low point of duck populations in the United States. I have a questionwhen a gun is described as having a "milled rib" I thought that referred to the fact that the barrel had posts that were milled as part of the barrel instead of being attachedI see guns described as having "round post milled ribs" I don't think that is correct? I worked in two gun shops when I was in college. View cart for details. The duck gun sent to the American Rifleman staff in 1935 would not unlock during recoil. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Most annoying was the failure of the action-slide lock to function properly. The 1 5/8-ounce load of the mid-30s bought the 12 magnum a few more yards of range. JavaScript is disabled. The first thing you notice when you pick up a duck gun is its weight and solid feel. Advanced . I was at a local gunshop this morning and was looking at a model 12 2-3/4" that had a Simmons rib. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. Since Every shotgun manufacturer is a friend of mine, Askins views were well known in the industry. Charles Askins, in an article entitled Long Range Shotguns in the January 1930 issue of the American Rifleman, concludes that a 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot, patterning 80% or better is pretty reliable [on ducks] at 65 yards. However, Askins goes on to say I have never, personally, had a shotgun which would reach far enough. Before the eight gauge was banned in 1918, Askins had a Greener eight-gauge double with 36-inch barrels weighing 13 pounds. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. Johnson, at once one of the great gun designers and one of the least known, produced a steady flow of new firearm designs for Winchester. The nearest thing to a Model Twelve that could appear, whether domestic or foreign, would be a shotgun with the same model designation, but it would not and could not be a Model Twelve. Browning, in fact, did import foreign-made copies of the Model 12 after Madis wrote the above. I believe the solid ribs were soft (lead) soldered like the model 21's. But getting back to the original question, a Simmons rib does detract from the value of a Model 12 and most people will turn away from them. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. I put one of those BIG soft foam risers on the comb and shot it that way for years. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our I included tungsten polymer shot because it is non-toxic to waterfowl and has the same density as lead. Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. 31 12 ga. pump shotgun w/ Simmons ventilated rib - walnut checkered stock & forearm - & 30" Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. Beautiful grain pattern and very tight hand checkering on the stock . Factroy finish on metal, custom wood. This Model 12 has Serial Number 1391884 was produced in 1953. At Guns.com, if an FFL is Total production reached two million. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. Along in the 1920s a few bold souls had long-chambered [3-inch], overbored, long-barreled, and heavy, long range 12-gauge Magnum double guns built. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The $48 price tag was right. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. The gun weighed 8 1/2 pounds with its 32-inch Full choke barrel. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. Winchester Model 12 1940's gun. Every cowboy needs a revolver. The Model 12, already 23 years old, was one of many successful designs by Thomas C. Johnson. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. As far as early 2 pins, remember there were a few made as early as 1919, standard and "graded" model 12's (ie) "Black Diamaonds" they had the longer checkered forearm. It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. ONLY ONE EVER PRODUCED BY WINCHESTER, ULIMATE RARITY. The stock has a hard-rubber plate and a real, full pistol grip carved close to the guard. The 30" heavy barrel is proof stamped "WINCHESTER TRADE MARK MADE IN THE U.S.A."; "-MODEL 12 - 12 GA. - FULL"; "WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL"; "FOR SUPER SPEED & SUPER - X 3 IN.". Looks to me a bit like the raised rib on a Lutjic one barrel trap gun- and the 870- well, Rudy Etchen shot a 12 gauge 870 Trap Grade he got new in 1950-I'd like to have a C-note for every clay bird, box pigeon and game bird he shattered with that old Remmie- I could move in next to Bill Gates- or maybe his gardener!! Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. L.O.P. I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. SN is 167xx, all numbers do match. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Winchester Model 12 12 ga 26" oal aftermarket poly choke and vent rib at the best online prices at eBay! Firearms dont get much more iconic than John Moses Brownings legendary Auto-5 semi-auto shotgun, affectionately called the Humpback for its distinctive drop at the rear of the receiver. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. Thereafter, a staggering number of variations were produced during the 1912-1980 period. BARREL 30" CHOKE FULL 90% FACTORY BLUE ORIGINAL FACTORY HEAVY DUCK RECOIL PAD WOOD VERY GOOD. 1938 lists the stock for a 12 gauge skeet grade as 14" with a Buttplate. Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? The help you need is to get a life. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. 12 Gauge, This is a very nice Winchester Model 12 Trap pump action shotgun in 12 gauge. There is a moderate mark as shown in the photograph. Save my name and email to use for future comments. So here is a history lesson on the skeet grade. Not shown in the table of results are the dense centers of patterns obtained with #4 shot compared to # 8 and #2 shot. All Model 12 shotguns have an action slide lock that keeps the action closed and locked in the event of a misfire or hang-fire. Initially came a series of auto-loading rifles, including the rimfire Model 1903 and centerfire rifles, culminating with the Model 1910, chambered for the 401 WSL cartridge. Winchester advises Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke. Use tungsten polymer, tungsten matrix or bismuth shot for waterfowl hunting with your Model 12 duck gun. Gunsmithing Services - Simmons Gun Repair Full list of professional Gunsmithing services and prices at Simmons Gun Repair Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. Ab steadies the boat. It is first shooting light. According to the Serial# 1439865, and Winchester manufacturing records, this gun w. 12ga, #366988, 30 inch barrel, 2 1/2 inch chamber, full choke, solid rib, blue finish, straight grip checkered walnut stock, checkered walnut forearm, 13 3/4 LOP with "newer" Winchester pad, 12ga, #1417110, 30 inch barrel, 3 inch chamber, full choke, blue finish, walnut stock and forearm, solid rib, original red rubber pad, 1954. A smothered roar from around the corner! For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. Buckingham recorded his adventures in some of the best hunting stories ever written. SN 1231992 Up for sale is a very clean and unique Winchester Model 12 in Pigeon Grade. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. There was only one way to go after World War I: standardize shell lengths, discontinue bastard gauges and reduce the load options. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. An offset proof mark will boost the value compared to an aftermarket rib. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. It was an immediate success. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. Model 42s with donut post ribs, no Simmons markings, proof marks in the right places, in the proper serial number range, are considered to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Smith Double Barrel Shotgun $250 Mar 24, 2023 Browning "Twenty" Semi Automatic Shotgun $200 Mar 24, 2023 Browning "Light Twelve" Semi Automatic Shotgun $200 Mar 24, 2023 Browning Pump Action Shotgun $150 Thanks for all the info,my Grandfather died when I was in 12th grade in 1971 and I now have his field grade Mod.12 and 9 others love them all.I also have my Great Grandfathers Mod.97. There are 3 possible models that you might have: 1) Your Model 12 has a grooved slide handle and with a 'F' stamped after the serial number and has a lightweight alloy trigger guard. These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. Also, it was the only 1 3/8-ounce magnum load available. A 2pin vent rib lets the shooter sight under the bird and keep the bird in sight. Winchester Model 12 Takedown Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Ventilated RibProduced in 1961. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. Most sellers have no idea what they are selling. Winchester recognized the scarcity of ducks in their promotional advertisement of the new duck gun To Meet the New Wildfowling Conditions. I suspect most Model 12 duck guns bought before World War II were put to work on other game. Westerns 3-inch 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot was introduced the same year. That way, were helping small businesses in Pandemonium! Winchester Model 12 Shotguns For Sale Shotgun Winchester Model 12. Made in 1928, 12 Gauge, 28"" barrel. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. And make the 42 any grade you want and a self described winchester know it all couldn't tell the differance and may have bought one. , Excellent Winchester Model 12 12 gauge Deluxe Skeet gun with factory issued Cutts Compensator. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. The slide handle was enlarged in about 1956 to a slightly extended beaver tail shape with 14 circular grooves. This test determines if excessive peening of the bolt locking cut in the receiver has occurred. Featherweight: same as above; lightweight alloy trigger guard. Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 13 1/8" LOP. Winchester dutifully shipped its duck guns with a wooden plug installed to limit magazine capacity to two shells. Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga Deluxe GI#: 102228842 Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex .Click for more info Seller: First Stop Gun Area Code: 605 $1,750.00 It also got a new action slide. Winchester cautiously claimed 70 to 75% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.. The marsh is in riot! 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Checkered stocks and extension slide handles were available as options on the standard grade throughout most of the duck guns production. Its failure to release on discharge made it impossible to shoot doubles [at skeet] with this particular sample. The staff concluded, Mechanically, the sample was not as good as other guns of the same model. Noted were machine marks on the breech bolt, wood not closely fitted, primers struck off center and sharp edges at the chamber. Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. Gun #: 978404477 Seller: Sportsmans Legacy GA Sales: 739 $25,000.00 No Reserve . Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. I have often wondered how well my guns would pattern with modern ammunition. I believe that Stadt's book is one of the few that actually states that Winchester did produce M42s with Winchester vent ribs. It looks like it is in very good shape. . 1937 2pin vent rib offerd, all skeet grade guns offerd with solid or plain barrels. The slide handle was given a larger diameter, flat bottom and 14 grooves on each side of the handle about 1947. The straight grip stock, optional from 1935, was discontinued in the late 1950s. Bids. *** RARE *** Winchester Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN limited production run that combines the pre-64 Model 12 with a 12 ga. Magnum 30" barrel, factory production 3" Magnum, with a factory Simmons Vent Rib on an upgraded wood stock! It is in excellent condition with only light handing marks, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New Castle, Delaware "Home of TAX, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, 26" BBL, 2 3/4, POLY CHOKE, RIBLESS, EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIGGER, MEDIUM DARK FIGURED WALNUT, PISTOL GRIP, LOP 14 3/8, 1 1/2, 2 5/16, 7LBS 3OZ, 985 BLUE, Winchester. My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. A study of Michael McIntoshs book Best Guns indicates that a few thousand of the specialized waterfowl doubles of all brands were sold between 1921 and 1941. The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. Classic Browning Light Twelve Auto-5 Review: Busting Clays With the Old Humpback Shotgun. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. Winchester symbol # G1285S. Stock has a Monte Carlo cheekpiece and European pistol grip with a right hand palm swell. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. An incredible collector grade limited production 1953 Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN SIMMONS VENT RIB that is offered below Blue Book value. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". We need to talk model 12's sometime. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . Both shotguns shot to point of aim and all patterns were contained on the target paper due to precise aiming, facilitated by placing a 25-pound sack of lead shot between me and the gun butt. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 1d 7h 25m 17240921. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. Stadt's book is a very good book that alot of people don't seem to know about. Condition: excellent bright bore, 98% blue overall thinn, Winchester Model 12. another state. I offer the following example from What Rarer Day in Buckinghams book De Shootinest Gentman and Other Tales published in 1934. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. The near nine-pound Model 12 duck gun is an anachronism among todays waterfowl hunting shotguns. In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. Everything functions as it should. Westerns copper-plated shot, introduced about 1925, extended shotgun range even further. w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. Teal, mallard, widgeon and sprig [pintail] hover singly and in bunches overhead. My 1951 Winchester Ammunition Handbook gives a comparison of 17 to 11 feet at 60 yards. However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. Very good condition overall. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Action works very nicely. Serial numbers match on barrel and receiver. The extra weight is meant to soak up the recoil of what once was thought to be a very hard-kicking load. A great looking gun, in excellent condition. the store. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. Dave Riffle in his book, The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built: The Model 12 1912-1964, states The Winchester Model 12 was, and still remains, the only gun that was offered in over 100 different variations or configurations during its lifetime. It is fair to say that Winchester produced Model 12 shotguns for every conceivable shotgunning special interest group, including duck hunters. Click here for more information. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. The takedown joints are tight (See the instructions in Madis book if your Model 12 has a loose take-down joint). Fanciers of long-range shotguns now had a 12-gauge repeater shooting a 10-gauge shot load. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. Johnson designed the Models 52 and 61 rimfire rifles and the Model 54 centerfire rifle. Since you in Kansas; ever deal with now deceased Felix Bedlan @ Fairbury, Neb. The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. Keith stated in 1967: The old 70% standard is now obsolete and most any full choke gun will go 75% or better. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. I read your posts; you do love the Model 12, been there done that. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Model 12 duck guns had the same six-shot capacity as the standard Model 12: one in the chamber, five in the magazine. It is, somehow, not easy to avoid shoving shells wrong end first into ones gun. Every once in a while a Model 12 comes through our club with a high Moneymaker rib like that. The magnitude of this sale is appreciated when you realize how few of the special 10- and 12-gauge magnum double guns were sold. I hope this helps you out A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. The Model 12 was the first magazine repeater chambered for 3-inch magnum shells. If it's a 12 gauge, replacement factory butt stocks can be hard to come by. The 3-inch shell was chambered originally in the famous Super Fox long-range double. Smith & Wesson Model 586: Reviewing A .357 Revolver With Class. The Model 12 was about 40 percent more expensive than the '97, yet it consistently outsold its older brother during the 45-year-span they shared in the Winchester catalog. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? Alarm calls! Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. 4 chilled shot.. Nash Buckingham was one of the great duck-hunting writers of the period. Pattern percentages were around 70% with these latter loads.