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If Saruman destroyed Sauron If he won, he would become a great L. When Gandalf returned and revealed himself to Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn he said something to the effect of "in a way I'm now Saruman, but you can keep calling me Gandalf." It may not display this or other websites correctly. Orcs are poster children for corruption, and plague the Fellowship throughout the novels. The content on this site is for entertainment and educational purposes only. I don't think it would have made Saruman invincible, and, after all, he still would still have had to contend for instance with Treebeard and the Ents, as well as with Sauron. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? But if they did, Saruman would have had the One Ring in his possession. Read more on cbr.com. The greatest act of disobedience in LOTR had possibly the greatest consequences which in the end saved the Quest of the Ring and saved Middle-Earth that being Eomer's act of disobedience. Saruman was a wizard and warlord, in a fortress controlled by himself, garrisoned by orcs and men, and separated from Mordor by regions which were not Sauron-friendly. He now lives with his family in Lynchburg VA and is an avid outdoorsman. Saruman tries to master the ring, but he doesn't completely achieve such mastery. The Lord of the Rings doesnt have plot holes. Tolkein himself said that it would have been a difficult battle, and might have gone either way, but that One of the true great powers could have dedfeated Sauron by using the Ring. On the surface, Saruman seems like one of the simplest Lord of the Rings characters to define. His Spirit would continue in some astral realm, and would use His real weapon: TIME. That Saruman is nothing like the Stranger who falls from the sky in The Rings of Power. You have different tier options between $2 - $250, which can get you everything from exclusive access to upcoming videos, shoutouts, discounts, access to original artwork, producer credits on productions etc. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? [ST:TNG] The First Duty what if there had been no accident? I also assume that Sauron would have eventually won the war. The Lord of the Rings. Hes lost his way in a search for greater power. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. Answer (1 of 12): I agree with what has been said. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Does he use his great voice, enhanced by the One to subjugate the free peoples. Sauron is the primary villain of The Lord Of The Rings. A couple of points to add to the excellent arguments thus far: This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Saruman probably would have become the dominant power in Middle Earth and turned it into a pretty crappy place to live. When the good wizard Saruman uses one to spy on the peoples of Middle-earth, he is drawn in by its power and ensnared by . Since both are immortal, Saruman is going to be tortured for a long, long, long, long, LONG time. He had also extensively started studying the lore required to make his own ring of power. Thus, the power of the Ring is both direct (like the power of a weapon) and symbolic (like the power of a cult object). One can imagine We don't know enough about the powers of the Ring, in the hands of an ambitious wizard how it might have worked as a "devastating weapon" (Letter 246), how, as a symbol, it might in Saruman's hands have affected Sauron's servants and vassals. By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the . He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. This moment was part of an overall mistake, and they could be wrong about this observation, too. 1. On the other hand, if the Stranger is Saruman, consider that journey and how it makes his transformation all the more tragic. No doubt he would have exercised all his powers searching the area from Parth Galen where the Ringbearer departed to the Black Gate. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. You are using an out of date browser. Rather, Saruman would have had to dominate Sauron's will and essentially kick him out of the Ring. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. JavaScript is disabled. In the hypothetic situation where Sauron thought, or knew, that Saruman had the Ring, I think he would have responded in a similar way. In the chapter "the White Rider" (LOTR Book 3, chapter 5), shortly after Ugluk's foray has been defeated, Gandalf gives a detailed analysis of Saruman's motives and Sauron's concerns. Nazgul were formidable opponants, under the right circumstances. 5 Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? "Saruman would've won if he captured the ring"--Won what? If Saruman had not been corrupted in the first place, the war might have gone much easier for the Free Peoples. He would have also learned where the Fellowship was broken and knowing the Ringbearer's true purpose would assume his destination would be the Black Gate which indeed it was until Gollum convinced Frodo otherwise. His actions were more indirect as his decision was of non-action in not taking Frodo to Minas Tirith. Saruman summon the storm on Caradhras in the PJverse in The Fellowship of the Ring. That he will never do now.". Why are trials on "Law & Order" in the New York Supreme Court? If any artists would like us to remove their artwork, or add anything additional to credit you, please contact us and we will sort it straight away! What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? It seems it was a mistake for the Ring to leave Isildur. Since the One Ring is a part of Sauron it could only ever reach its full power under Sauron's control. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. Unfortunately, Sauron had got on the wrong side of a particularly powerful race: the Nmenreans.The isle of Nmenr was a realm of men that sat apart from Middle-earth and those who lived there were more powerful than the men seen elsewhere in The Lord of . Unfortunately, the woman did not remember the name of the stone and we will be in St. Thomas next week (YEAY) so I was wondering if anyone had any idea what this stone . Mostly, though, he most enjoys writing about Star Wars. Then Sauron would have had the ring again and either he'd keep Saruman as a servant or just get rid of him for trying to be his equal. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, A THE LORD OF THE RINGS Musical Heads to the UK Stage, LOTR: RETURN OF THE KING Returning to Theaters for 20th Anniversary, 5 Middle-earth Stories the New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies Should Tell, Go On a Journey with THE LORD OF THE RINGS ADVENTURE BOOK GAME, New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies in the Works (Yes, Really), MAGIC: THE GATHERING Headsto Middle-earth with LORD OF THE RINGS Set, Send Sauron a Letter with LOTR Black Speech Keyboard. Balrogs are intelligent sentient beings. Too well studied, as it turned out, for Saruman gradually turned to evil himself, emulating Sauron's works. The three created majesty of a different sort, and magnified the loyalty of those who already were loyal, rather than coercing by fear. Saruman had full control of his army, which is why the Hobbits were being brought to him (because they maybe had the ring), instead of immediately to Sauron (who at the time of their capture, they were much closer to). Yet, he had . Thus, while Gandalf taking the One Ring would have expediated the destruction of Sauron, it also would have hasted the subjugation of Middle-earth. I imagine it'd be a similar situation as if Gandalf or Saruman got The Ring. Not true. If he could obtain or recreate the One Ring for himself, he would be able to rule Middle-earth just like Sauron did. RELATED: The Lord of the Rings: 10 Details About Sauron's Costume You Never Noticed This incident, one of those that was invented for the film to increase tension, is an incredible missed opportunity for the minions of the Dark . How long before Sauron wrung out the truth from Saruman? Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. For example, Beregond is reprimanded for leaving his post but is assigned to a position of honor by Aragorn in recognition of why he disobeyed. What did Tolkien originally write? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. So all of the vanilla staves will get a retexture that adds a new color depending on their enchantment. Could he really do anything with it? Does it shoot bolts of kickarse out of it's hilt? Loyalty is an important theme in Tolkien's world and obedience to authority is paramount in a medieval setting as in Middle-Earth. 3 yr. ago. In the books it is mentioned several times that Sauron fears one of the uber good guys getting hold of the Ring. *Originally posted by Triskadecamus * It does not store any personal data. We know that disobedience can bring ruin such as what happened with the Noldor when they disobeyed the Valar or the Army of the Dead when they disobeyed Isildur and broke their oath to fight for him. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. Rohan would've fallen to Saruman and wouldn't have been able to come to the aid of Gondor and helped make the final stand against the forces of Mordor at the Black Gate. Galadriel) might have been able to master the ring. JavaScript is disabled. My own feeling is that since it takes time to learn to master the Ring (also Letter 246), Sauron would have had to pay a visit immediately and before Saruman had the time to achieve this mastery. Well what DID the Ring do for Sauron? After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. But if only one Istar has come to Middle-earth so far, Saruman is a strong candidate. Amy Ratcliffe is the Editor-in-Chief for Nerdist and the author ofStar Wars: Women of the Galaxy, The Art of Star Wars: Galaxys Edge, The Jedi Mind, and more. cbr.com - Blake Hawkins 14h. After all, they would both want the other one's full and utter . Saruman Secretly Forged His Own Ring of Power in The Lord of the Rings. That is, however, a legitimate concern when entering any fight: any weaponry you wield may be captured and used against you. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. How did Saruman become corrupted? If Saruman had the ring and he learned to master it, he could rule Sauron's armies and servants as it says in The Fellowship Of The Ring. He will likely go through some things, but that would mean the Gandalf we meet in the Second Age is largely the same as the Gandalf in the Third Age. In the Silmarillion we have Iluvatar's strongest creation falling from grace.In many ways Saruman's fall is the 3rd Age equivalent. First its a lucky hit, now its a super-human with a magical super-sword? Thank you! The thing is, it's worth wondering what would have happened if Frodo had failed. If he would have been strong enough to control the ring, what would have happened to Sauron? 1 What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? - his malice and domination, or something like that. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that effects all events afterwards! I know Letter 246 says Sauron himself did not fear the Ring, would not have hesitated to confront a Ring-wielding Frodo, and could easily have forced Frodo to hand the Ring over. The White Wizard put Isengard at Sauron's disposal until his armies were defeated at Helms Deep and his staff was broken by the resurrected Gandalf. In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. (OK, just a Numenorean with the largest army and navy in all of history.) Is Bosnia a developing or developed country? The chapter is a partly published version of a manuscript now held at the Marquette University (MSS 4/2/31-37); [1] other parts of this manuscript and a time scheme have been included in The . Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? A Saruman prequel, an Aragorn spin-off and a Gandalf v the Necromancer thriller could all lead up to the fateful hunt of Gollum and the events immediately preceding the Lord of the Rings (with . We'll pick u. Was he not already the warlord of a growing realm, a commander of orcs and men? Sauron was the Dark Lord in The Lord of the Rings saga, written by J.R.R. We dont know any details about his activities in Rhn or his other easterly travels. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. #2. And in The Rings of Power, when the mystics realized their error, they said the Stranger is the Istarnot one of the Istari, the Istar, as if only one is present in Middle-earth right now. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. When Gandalf meets Saruman in Orthanc, he notices that Saruman is wearing a ring. https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch! Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. For more information, please see our RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. https://www.teespring.com/stores/historyoftheagesAlso here are our other social media links too! It would have been the master in the end. But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. Why does Gandalf seek counsel from Saruman about the One Ring after leaving Frodo in the Shire? Although Saruman had selfish motives, he didn't expect to fall so deep . You must log in or register to reply here. What would have happened if Saruman had gotten his hands on the One Ring? A capable bearer would have all that power, plus whatever native power he or she had to begin with. If you know how to use it, its an *extremely* powerful magical artifact. It wasn't really a surprise. The other Rings of power could be used by anyone else varying only by the individual. In the case of Sauron it increased his ability to deceive people, entice people to his will, made him stronger and faster then he had been, wiser in the use of his raw poweress, "and he could see and govern the very thoughts of those that wore the lesser Rings of Power." Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". But what was the purpose of the three? Why didn't they bring the Ring to Valinor? It's much more likely that Saruman would have used the One Ring for himself and tried to claim Middle-earth as his own. After his friendship with Nori, that would hurt. He would simply wait and let the Ring do what it was made to do. The Great Eye also features heavily in Peter Jacksons blockbuster big-screen adaptations, an ever-watchful flaming orb atop a massive stone obelisk. He disobeyed his king but he held his loyalty to his people and by doing so he inadvertently saved Middle-Earth. If not for Gandalf, Gondor might've fallen to Sauron. It only takes a minute to sign up. In the appendices it mentions the three assaults on Lorien, during the final days of the struggle. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. It was his own and under his will. "Greetings, Naruto Wraithslayer, wielder of the Faerdagnir. As Sauron once was, Saruman, a Maia of Aule, became absorbed in Ring-lore as he studied Sauron's evil works. All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers. He also used his Palantir to spy on Sauron. Gandalf found out that Saruman had abandoned his mission when the White Wizard asked him to join forces with Sauron. He still had the nine, and perhaps some of the seven. When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. Did she think she could have avoided being drawn to Sauron if she did seize the Ring? 2023 Minute Media - All Rights Reserved. Any idea what set any of these are from? He believed he could fake an alliance with the Dark Lord while ultimately finding the ring for himself and ruling Middle Earth. What about orcs, or trolls wielding the rings taken from the dwarves? Sorry, memory fails me ATM. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. Despite an erratic and feeble end, for long he was one of the wise, and for long desired the ring; he could not possibly have failed to consider Sauron's response. Why Rings of Powers Fight Scenes Are Boring. Now, consider Saruman. "In a hole in the ground there lived a rabbit? He regained his identity and seemingly his memories, but the Stranger did not say, Hi, Nori, I have a name and its Gandalf. His friendship with the adventurous Harfoot, his mannerisms, and some of his lines ring true for Gandalf the Grey. Gandalf - open displays of power versus his restrictions as an Istar. . To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. It's possible Saruman would have been able to defeat Sauron. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Saruman's power is that of influence, both in a political sense of his influence as the highest member of the council, but also in the sense of being able to have some control over other people . However, Gandalf knew that if he being an extremely powerful Maiar just like Sauron had taken the One Ring, he would become no different than the Dark Lord. At the beginning of the story, Saruman is more powerful than Gandalf. I would have thought that they would have been used against Sauron if at all possible while he didnt have the one. Sauron would then have suspended his campaign against Minas Tirith, and instead sent his armies north-west, through Rohan towards Isengard. As Istari, they were to exhort the free peoples of the world in preparation for a possible future conflict with Sauron. He also had control of the nine kings and such or was supposed to, although didn't Elrond get a ring yet was present at the battle? Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Saruman arrived in Middle-earth midway through the Third Age, along with Gandalf and Radagast. Not unless Saruman got the ring. I would think that Saruman, a Maia, would be in that category. But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. Saruman used the seeing stones(palintir) to keep up with Sauron, as did Boromirs Father (name slips me now), Sarumaon would be no more than a snivinling fool of Sauron.